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Django
TriadCity Character
I know this has been mentioned before, but some of us would really like to put more meat on our character's bones.

Yesterday Sireth, Rithor and I got into a situation where it would have been even better if we'd had more emotions available to use. I think someone once referred to being able to customise emotions etc, and create them at will when needed as 'uber emote'. It would be so good if we could, and if it wasn't going to be awful in terms of the work it would take to implement.

Anderr
TriadCity Character
I agree. - We can't manually make every emotion, especially in TC, where many characters could have unique action, such as character with tentacles or unique features like a ponytail that they tug on when they think, etc.

Since it's faster and interacts with NPCs, I imagine that people will generally use the standard emotes, but for those inevitable unique situation, feelings, or characters, the universal emote would be nifty.
Mark
TriadCity Character
OK, we'll implement it pretty soon for characters level 10 and higher. As an experiment.

(OOC) I'm concerned that it'll cause more confusion than you realize, since it won't generate the "events" which drive behaviors. If you're at the Origin Stone and you "emote bow monk", newbies will see you bow, and the Monk will do nothing in response. This'll happen all over the game world and I really do suspect it'll turn out to be a problem for people's learning curves.

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Mark
TriadCity Character
(OOC continued) Further, I worry that we'll end up getting newbies accidentally killed.

Example: "emote hits evil stormtrooper upside the head".

Newbie sees that an experienced player hits a stormtrooper and the stormtrooper doesn't respond. Newbie naturally assumes it's safe to do that, types "hit stormtrooper" for a big joke, and gets killed in return.

You can promise until you're purple that you'll never, ever, ever do things like this. But it'll happen when people forget and etc.

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Django
TriadCity Character
Well what if we promise to use it only socially, which is really when I think most of us need it. For expample Rithor was really struggling to tell me something tonight, and could have done with more 'character'. And we were just chatting.

If we used it only among players and it didn't interact with NPC's (if it's possible to differentiate) then that might work.
Anderr
TriadCity Character
(ooc)As for you first concern, I feel it won't be too tough to make the distinction in people's minds that emotes do not trigger events with non-players, including the game world - I really don't think it'll be tough to establish the distinction. As for your second comment, well, that's a very valid point, and I do agree that, statistically, it's going to happen. But I think it's a small price to pay, really. Most newbies who fall victim to that sort of event are likely to be the types who would eventually be killed by a stromtrooper/pigeon/walrus eventually. Other games with the Emote command seem to get by okay, and I think TC is one of the best candidates for it around, and it will give the game wardens something to monitor.
Mark
TriadCity Character
(OOC) My experience with other games that have emote commands is that it's an absolute disaster! It turned TinyMUD into a horrible, horrible place. IMO!

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Mark
TriadCity Character
(OOC) In the way this suggestion has been discussed so far, it wouldn't be possible to differentiate between players and NPCs because the command never interacts with the game world, it simply passes its arguments directly to the Game window.

Example: when I type "hits the stormtrooper upside the head", the Game window displays "Mark hits the stormtrooper upside the head". It *appears* to be the outcome of a standard command -- Hit -- but it's not. The Command never checks who's in the room or does anything other than pass its arguments straight to the display. That's specifically what people have asked for, and I think that in TC's context it's likely to be a very newbie-unfriendly feature.

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Mark
TriadCity Character
(OOC) Reading your post again, I'm now really pretty alarmed. I don't think it's a small price to pay and I strongly contest the belief that newbies who are fooled to death deserve to be.

TC has evolved into a very newbie-unfriendly environment and that's probably the most important impediment to future growth. IMO we should be looking to make newbies' experiences easier, not writing them off as types who deserve whatever happens to them.

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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Anderr
TriadCity Character
(ooc) Then we won't use it all over newbies. We all know that all it does is diplay the message and is in no way 'perceived' by the game world, but despite that, I think it's worth the tradeoff. Like I said, other games with a versatile emote don't seem to suffer from it, and I think TC would handle it very well. I say just give it a try - I predict that this will kill fewer newbies than pigeons have.
Anderr
TriadCity Character
(ooc) Sorry if you interpreted my comments to mean that newbies can be written off. That's the last thing I would support. I feel that newbies should be given full considerations, and that experienced players shouldn't wield an unfair advantage over them. (see my posts on the OOC board re: levelups)

However, your predictions of the possible outcomes seem to be sort of a "worst case scenario" - and that doesn't mean that there won't be a downside, but since you are making it clear that this is a test implementation, if it proves to be a problem then just remove it again. I understand your concern - experienced players with the will to destroy newbies could trick them into it with a little luck - but that is also the case now, and I don't hear complaints about people tricking others to their deaths. Maybe some regulatory measures are called for. For instance, each character could have a log kept of all the universal emotes they use, subject to public scrutiny (or that of some accountable party, such as the Game Wardens) for use as evidence in the event of a complaint and leading to a permanent ban. There are other ways too, I'm sure. Or, why not have an asterisk at the end of an emoted message (as seen by the players) to indicate to people that it is an emote and not a game-event? THe way I see it, the universal emote is perfect for TC, and we shouldn't shy away from it if it presents a challenge - let's look for solutions instead.
Rithor
TriadCity Character
(OOC)It's true that TC is very newbie unfriendly. We've been helping a lot of people lately, though, but it's hard to get people to stick.

I see what you mean - theoritically, it would be quite easy for me to kill a new player or even a not so new one. I could simply pretend to attack something and ask for their assistance. Don't get me wrong - I'd love an emote command, but I understand your concern.

I definitly feel that it's quite restricting without the emote command. I'm stumped on how to still have it but make sure that it doesn't kill newbies. (Other than the killing of newbies, I don't think the emote command would be a problem - typos would make the city look less polished, but we could wait and see about that.)

Django
TriadCity Character
Yes please Mark. In the first response to my inital post you sounded as if you would indeed give it a trial period. Now it feels like you might not. Can we not have it even for say a week to test the water?
Anderr
TriadCity Character
(ooc)Here are a few other ideas to make emotes distinguishable from standard game events (to prevent all kinds of fraud): there could be a dash before or after the emote, as in "-Anderr pushes his glasses up his nose", or the emotes could appear in a different colour than the rest of the game world messages; it could be a subtle difference, like the one between the OOC and "say" channels so that emotes blend in well but are still distinguishable, or it could be a more visible colour; red, green, whatever is aesthetic. What do you think? If emotes were distinguishable, then it would be impossible to emote simulated game commands and have them be taken seriously. A few lines in the Player's Guide re: telling emotes from events would go a long way toward protecting newbies, and it will be easy for Game Wardens to demonstrate to newbies the difference between emotes and commands by way of example.

I post these suggestions because, after careful thought, I've realized that your argument is very true; there is potential for fraud using the emote, and not only with new players, but all players: Emotes could be used for shady dealings, such as emoting "Anderr gives you a Diamond Corslet" to fake a trade, etc. , and every time someone saw another player do ANYTHING they'd have to wonder if it was emoted or real.

But I think that the whole issue can be solved by making emotes distinguishable, using one of the methods I suggest, or anything else. So how about a trial run with distinguishable or logged emotes? I still feel that we can't do without them.
Mark
TriadCity Character
(OOC) I'm not worried at all about deliberate abuse. I'm worried about:

1) Newbies misunderstanding; and

2) The fact that the game world depends on the events generated by player commands. This Emote idea removes all of this player experience from the mechanics of the game world. I realize y'all don't fully understand this but I think it's a potential disaster for the game.

Bartle quotiet: E80, A67, S47, K7. TriadCity characters: Mark, Poobah, Occam, Abelard.
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